The ultra mindset: pushing boundaries with pro athlete Gediminas Grinius (keynote inspiration)

How far can you push your limits? In this episode, we dive into the ultra mindset with world-class ultramarathoner Gediminas Grinius. From military discipline to overcoming PTSD and outsmarting top athletes, Gediminas reveals the mental resilience, strategic thinking, and endurance driving extreme sports and business success. Whether you’re an event planner, entrepreneur, or simply looking for inspiration - this conversation will challenge how you think about pain, perseverance, and performance. Don’t miss it!


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Transcript

Hi, Gediminas. Welcome to the studio.


Hi, Kevin. Nice being here.


I can imagine a lot of our viewers don’t know you yet. You’re a world-famous top ultra marathon athlete. But I can also imagine that a lot of our listeners don’t even know what ultra marathon is.


So maybe we should start there. What is it you’re doing?


I’m running. And it’s like a simplified answer to that, but coming to ultra running or like more precisely, ultra trail running, what they do. So it’s, you know, everything which is more than a marathon, you know, and everything that is less than, you know, 80% of asphalt is like what they do. Yeah. On the trails. And usually my challenge is not the horizontal, like a lot of runners do here in Belgium, you know, but more vertical. Yeah. Because in my sport we’re basically climbing 10,000 meters on the ladders up to heaven in one go.


So this is what trail running is. And I had some success, you know, in the past. And currently, you know, I won Ultra Tail Wall 2 in 2016 and it was kind of a long journey. It took me like from 2012 to 2016 to achieve.


Just to give an idea, how long is such a race?


It could be anything, like from 50K. Yeah. Which is a standard now of the new UTMB World Series establishment, you know, to 160. My longest was 170 kilometers with 10,000 meters of elevation gain in one go. And if it’s like in stage running, the most famous problem, Marathon de Sables, which technically is a trail running as well. Yeah, you’re just running on the dunes and it was like 250 kilometers in five days. So I managed to do a couple of those. A couple of these races as well, you know, in Marathon de Sables, Morocco, Peru, in Mexico.


So this is what trail running is. And I don’t know, I have had some success in that. Even though some people, when I first started to run, said, “You’ll fail. You’re from a flat country, like Belgium is.” I’m from Lithuania, so we don’t have mountains. So how can you be a good mountain runner, especially when you’re starting so late?


We actually met on the trails and there are two things I want to talk with you about. First of all, I think there are a lot of parallels between being an event planner, which our audience is, but even more doing business in general, and ultra running.


I want to talk about that a little bit.


And on the second part of the interview, I want to talk about you as a keynote speaker. You have a very interesting background story. Maybe we can dive into that a little bit more to give a preview to the audience if they’re looking for a keynote speaker, what story you bring and why it’s interesting to share with their audiences.


Yeah, certainly, let’s do that. You know, you drive the conversation, and I’d be happy to answer any questions you have.


So in your opinion, what are the parallels between doing business and ultra running?


I think, you know, it’s just, well like a human, you know, we process all the information and do all the planning in the same way, no matter if it’s business, it’s running, or it’s military stuff.


But you also, we come back to that in the second part. But you also have a military background.


Yeah, like even in daily life, you know, the decision-making process is pretty much the same. We look at our end goal or end state.


And for business, it could be to earn some money or to establish some company. And in trail running or running in general, it could be to reach the finish line.


And on the way, we have multiple problems. Problems are like a kind of a brain thing to solve. And we are solving them along the way. Our brain, I believe in that, and there is some science that backs it, doesn’t see the difference in what you do. It just looks at the experiences you have and the failures you have and tries to fix that problem through your experiences.


So no matter what you take on, our brain works in the same way, just solving different but at the same time similar problems.


And if we are to be more precise, what is in common?


As I said, the end state and the problem-solving game through the planning process and the implementation process. So it’s a lot of parallels. And running helps business, and business actually helps running.


Yeah, because if you look at an event planning process, it’s not a sprint, it’s a project that takes a lot of time and you need to endure.


You don’t get to quit halfway. And I think there’s also a parallel that you need to push through even when it gets hard.


Yeah, like business and trail running, they are both endurance sports because, of course, nothing goes according to plan. There is always some deviation from the plan.


And something happens that you didn’t predict.


Of course, during the planning process, you have these courses of action or contingency plans—what can go wrong and how to solve it. But usually, during the implementation phase, whether it’s an event or a trail run, you experience totally different problems that you didn’t anticipate.


In trail running, it could be some gut problems that prevent you from finishing. It could be some injuries.


It’s taking the wrong turn.


Exactly. This is what taking the wrong turn means. And you need to know how to cope with that because taking the wrong turn looks like a minor problem, but in the past, for some of my friends, it was disastrous.


I’ll give you an example of Jim Wamsley, another great runner. He’s a winner of UTMB and many, many other races. I think he’s currently even ranked number one in the world. So basically, during the Western States race, which is the most famous race in the US, he was leading the race, and he took the wrong turn. He ran about 5 km in the wrong direction.


And when he realized that, he was totally destroyed.


Yes, he sat on a rock, and in his mind, he thought, “A lot of people already passed me, so I’m done. I’m not achieving my goal, which was to win the race.” And he just gave up. He didn’t move, he dropped out of the race.


But what actually happened?


If he had just gone back and continued in the right direction, he still could have won because the other runners were more than an hour behind.


And even finishing is more important. If you’re organizing an event, it’s like you plan for 10 scenarios. The 11th happens and you need to adapt, you need to find a way, and especially if your crowd is already there, you need to find solutions and you need to bring it to the finish.


And it’s obvious, you know, but in some situations, if you don’t have a proper plan or experience, you don’t realize that. And of course, the next year, Jim came back to the same race, and he won. Because he gained experience. He knew that even if he took a wrong turn, he needed to go back and finish the race.


And this is actually what I did in the Trans Gran Canaria race. I don’t remember the exact year, but a few years back, I was leading the race with a few guys. I took the wrong turn and ran down the mountain. Then I realized that I was off track. It was already about 2 kilometers off course.


But I knew from experience that I could still be on the podium. Maybe I wouldn’t win the race, but I could still make it to the podium. So I turned back, got on the right track, and then I won the race.


Yeah, and you won the race.


Yeah. So you can imagine that these bad things that happen, they’re not the end. You don’t need to stop. You need to keep fighting.


Because in my mind, my brain plays these games. I tell myself, “Okay, I got lost, but the guys in front of me might experience other problems. Maybe stomach issues, maybe they’ll take a wrong turn too.” So I still have a chance. I keep fighting.


And I think the important thing, whether in business or trail running, is that you have your goals. But along the way, when problems occur, you need to either increase your ambition or decrease it—you need to adjust.


Exactly. And sometimes, during a race, if I see that I feel really good and my goal was just to win, I’ll say, “Okay, maybe I can break the record.” So my ambition increases. That has happened many times in my career.


And sometimes, when you have a bad day and nothing goes according to plan, you need to lower your ambition. You say, “Okay, I’m not going to win today, but maybe I can aim for the top five.” And if top five isn’t possible, I’ll say, “Okay, my goal is just to finish the race, no matter how bad I feel.”


But how do you set that level of ambition? Because for most people, when they encounter difficulties, the first thing that comes to mind is, ‘I need to quit.’ But you adapt and say, ‘No, I don’t need to quit, but maybe third place is also good today.’


Quitting is not an option for me. I don’t know why, but I’m just not a quitter. Probably the only thing that could force me to quit is if I know I’m jeopardizing my future plans. If I have a big race coming up in a month and I’m injured, then it makes sense.


But in general, I’m not a quitter. Going into a race, I already have that mindset. And I think mindset is crucial before starting anything. You have to program yourself for it.


So my mind is already in the mode that I need to finish.


The same goes for interval training, right? It’s never easy, it never feels good.


Exactly. Let’s say you have a workout coming up and you know it’s going to be hard. You know you’re going to suffer. But if you prepare yourself mentally the day before, or even the week before, saying, “Okay, on that day, I’m going to suffer,” then you accept it.


And experience helps with that. Because you’ve been through it before, and you didn’t die. You got stronger. So you keep going, knowing you’ll finish what you started.


That’s again the same with an event. If you’re planning a festival, for example, and the festival takes a whole weekend, as an organizer, you’re there for two, three days—probably even longer because you need to do the build-up, you need to clean up afterward.


You’re the captain on the scene, so you need to be there. In reality, that’s also an endurance race because you don’t sleep a lot. You’re at peak performance on that day.


Yeah, exactly. It’s like in the military, where we say, “First in, last out.” Because we go through the whole process.


And just like with running, it doesn’t start on the start line. Running actually starts a year in advance. Right now, for example, I have my strategic plan for the year. I decide which races I will do and how I will train for them.


Then I have my operational plan, which is how I prepare for each race. And finally, I have my tactical plan, which is the actual race itself—how I execute on the day.


So, running doesn’t start with the start line. Some races have been on my mind for years before I even run them. I prepare systematically, strategically, and then approach it operationally.


For example, when I started ultra running, I finished third in 2014. In 2015, I got second place worldwide. And finally, in 2016, I won. That took years of preparation.


And then you have the dopamine crash because you finally achieve your goal and need to restart.


Yeah, exactly.


But I don’t know whether you want to share it here or not, but yesterday we were talking about setbacks, and you told me the Red Bull story.


I found that very inspiring.


A lot of people look at me and say, “Gediminas, you’ve won all these races, you’re an incredible athlete, you must have been born this way.” But the truth is, I wasn’t.


The Red Bull story proves that.


Red Bull noticed my successes and invited me to their headquarters in Salzburg. They said, “Before we sign you, we need to do some testing. We test all our athletes, and we want to make sure you’re a Ferrari, not a Fiat.”


And what happened?


Well, it turned out I was a Fiat!


They tested my VO2 max, which measures how efficiently your body uses oxygen. To be in the Red Bull team, I needed a score of 76. I got 56. That’s a huge gap.


So instead of a 12-cylinder engine, I was a 4-cylinder.


Then they did strength testing. I failed. Lactate threshold testing. I failed. They basically told me, “You’re just an ordinary guy. We’re not looking for average—we want something extraordinary.”


And how did that feel?


It was depressing, honestly. I thought, “Maybe I need to do something else with my life. Maybe play chess.”


Chess is fun!


Yeah, but it doesn’t require much physical effort.


But then I said, “Okay, let’s turn this negative energy into something positive.”


So I signed up for every race where Red Bull athletes were competing in 2016. And I won all of them—beating the “Ferraris” even though I was just a Fiat.


And what did that tell you?


It made me question how I could win despite my physical disadvantages.


And what was the answer?


It’s brain power. It all comes down to how badly you want it. How much pain are you willing to endure?


Because in the end, pain is just a perception created by the brain.


Because it also translates to how deep and how much pain you can endure.


It’s true. But it’s also related to brain function, because pain is a perception. It’s how we feel it.


And that comes from experience—my military experience, my life experience.


And just to be completely honest about the Red Bull test, I didn’t fail one test.


Do you know which one?


I don’t know, which one?


The psychological test?


Yes. I was at the highest level.


And it wasn’t just a standard psychology test where you answer questions. It was much more sophisticated.


For example, on the screen, they showed five triangles, and you had to push a button. It was a very boring and repetitive task, but this is how they measure how long you can stay focused.


Everyone makes mistakes. Eventually, your brain gets tired, you lose focus, and you press the button when you shouldn’t.


For some people, that happens after five minutes. For others, maybe 15 minutes.


Or if you have attention deficit, it happens almost immediately.


Yes. But for me, I lasted for about an hour before making a mistake.


That’s impressive.


Yeah, and this skill is very important in anything you do.


Because if you can stay focused—whether it’s in business, running, or something else—you avoid making critical mistakes.


In running, if you lose focus, you might twist an ankle, which is a common injury for ultra runners.


And when you’re running for 24 hours, your brain starts wandering. That’s when mistakes happen.


And that brings us to the topic you typically speak about in your keynote sessions—brain power. Do you think it’s trainable? Can everyone develop it?


Of course. You can train it in everyday life.


The brain is a miracle. Right now, we’re speaking in different languages, and we understand each other. That’s brain power.


So you believe mental resilience is something you can build?


Absolutely.


Take an example from work life. If you have a boss who constantly yells at you, at first, you can’t concentrate because it’s distracting. But over time, you learn to ignore it and stay focused.


It’s the same for people who live near an airport or a train station. At first, they hear every noise. But after a while, they don’t notice it anymore.


So we can manage pain in the same way?


Yes. We can learn to ignore it.


Let’s zoom out for a moment, because until now, this conversation has already been very inspirational. But if we look at your full story, it becomes even more powerful.


We already mentioned that you were in the military, which led to a diagnosis of PTSD. That was the moment you turned to running. Can you tell us more about that process and how it helped with your brain power?


Sure. I spent 20 years in the military. I served with Lithuanian forces and NATO. I was deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq.


When you’re young, you see it as an adventure. It feels like “military tourism.” Your friends do it, so you do it too.


But for me, it turned out differently. I saw people injured and killed. I was in situations where I could have died.


At the time, my wife was pregnant. That played on my mind.


That must have been incredibly hard.


Yes. But in the military, you don’t show weakness.


I didn’t talk about it with my colleagues because you have to be tough. If you want to be a general one day, you need to appear strong.


Even with my family, I kept it hidden because I didn’t want them to worry.


There was one moment I remember clearly. I was on the phone with my wife when an attack started.


She heard the noise and asked, “What’s going on?”


I told her, “It’s just fireworks. The locals are celebrating a wedding.”


Then I said, “I have to go.”


But in reality, it was an attack.


Yes. And when you go through those experiences, your brain changes. You get traumatized.


Because PTSD is a kind of brain damage. And to heal, you need to retrain your brain.


And how did you figure out what to do?


Google.


Dr. Google?


Yes, funny but true.


I searched for ways to cope with PTSD, and I found studies on Vietnam veterans. They found that physical activity helped.


So I thought, “Okay, what kind of exercise could work for me?”


Running seemed like a good option.


But before that, you weren’t a runner?


No, not at all. I only ran in the military to pass fitness tests. I wasn’t passionate about it.


I did boxing, martial arts, weightlifting. But running? Never.


So you started running as therapy?


Yes. I was still on a mission, so I started running loops around the base. It was a 1km loop, over and over.


But before that, you weren’t a runner?


No, not at all. I only ran in the military to pass fitness tests. I wasn’t passionate about it.


I did boxing, martial arts, weightlifting. But running? Never.


So you started running as therapy?


Yes. I was still on a mission, so I started running loops around the base. It was a 1km loop, over and over.


And did it help?


Yes, but at first, I wasn’t thinking about running ultra distances. I started with short distances—5K, 10K. Then I ran a marathon.


And what was your reaction after your first marathon?


I walked backward for days and said, “Never again!”


That sounds familiar!


Yes, totally. I made all the mistakes that every new runner makes.


But my wife noticed something. She saw that after I ran, I was calmer. I was less anxious. I didn’t raise my voice as much.


She saw that running made me a better person.


So she encouraged you to keep going?


Yes. And when your partner supports something, it makes a huge difference.


That was a turning point for me. It gave me permission to take running more seriously. So I started running longer distances.


And when did you realize you were actually good at it?


That happened in 2012.


At the time, I was still running road races. Lithuania had a 100km national record that had been unbroken for 20 or 25 years.


That challenge attracted me. It seemed impossible because many people had tried and failed.


So I trained for it, and I broke the record. That’s when I thought, “Okay, maybe I’m not such a bad runner after all.”


But then you switched to trail running. How did that happen?


It was almost an accident.


After I broke the 100km record, I was invited by the Lithuanian ultra-running association. They asked if I wanted to go to the Trail Running World Championships in Chevalier, France.


There was no selection process because, at that time, ultra-trail running in Lithuania barely existed.


So I said, “Sure, I’ll go!” But I had no idea what trail running was.


You trained for it like a road race?


Yes! I trained on flat ground. I even went on a military trip to Germany where there were mountains, but I still trained next to a river.


Then I arrived at the race, and it was nighttime.


And you didn’t have a headlamp?


No! I thought, “How is this possible? They launch a race in the dark?!”


Then we started climbing the mountains, and I thought, “This isn’t running, this is hiking!”


Then we reached snow, and I was like, “What kind of event is this?”


I finished the race, sat down, completely exhausted, and said, “I’m never doing this again.”


But then?


A few minutes later, I thought, “That was amazing.”


And that’s how my trail running story began.


But what I find very inspiring is how openly you talk about PTSD. That must have been a big switch for you.


Yes. At first, it was extremely difficult to admit.


For a long time, I didn’t even know I had PTSD. I felt different, but I didn’t know why. I had anxiety, bursts of anger, and loud noises made me panic.


But I was still in the military. I was a lieutenant, maybe a captain at the time. I still wanted to become a general.


And in the military, showing weakness is not an option.


Exactly. So I didn’t talk about it.


Even after my mission, we had to fill out psychological questionnaires. I just avoided answering them honestly.


But then something changed.


Yes. Around 2013 or 2014, the brand Innovate, which was sponsoring me at the time, sent me some interview questions. One of them was about PTSD.


I didn’t know much about it, so I googled it.


And that’s when you realized?


Yes. That’s when I started speaking more openly.


I thought, “Maybe there are others like me who need help.”


And for sure, there were.


Yes. And I wanted people to know that PTSD isn’t something to be ashamed of. It’s not a weakness. It’s not a sin.


We need to talk about it. Because by talking about it, we get better.


What I also like about the way you approach your sport—and I think this ties back to brain power—is that you go very deep into the science of every aspect related to running.


You don’t just run. You study everything—nutrition, the best training methods, the course layout. You analyze where the difficult sections will be and plan accordingly.


Yes, I like to plan everything in detail.


In my past military life, I was an analyst and a strategic planner for intelligence. I brought those skills into running.


So your military background still influences how you train and compete?


Yes, absolutely. In the military, other people’s lives depend on you. In running, your own life depends on you.


Even small details matter. And I’ve learned through reading, studying, and taking courses. I’m a certified coach now. I’m also finishing a nutrition course.


So you’re constantly learning and experimenting?


Yes, sometimes I experiment on myself, sometimes on my clients. Just joking!


I think most people know by now that you’re also coaching me.


Yes, knowledge is power.


If you know what to eat, when to eat, how to train properly, it makes a huge difference.


And it also shows in your results. You recently ran the same race in Madeira and finished 20 minutes faster than the previous year.


Yes! And I was in the same shape, at the same effort level.


That’s a huge improvement!


Yes, and I didn’t even expect it. I felt better than last year.


Do you think that’s also related to your mental state? Because you were more relaxed going into the race?


Oh yes, relaxation is super important.


If you do something systematically—whether it’s planning events or running races—you start to relax because you’re more familiar with the process.


Because you’ve seen it before, and you know how to handle different situations.


Exactly. You make fewer mistakes. You don’t stress about small things.


And does that also translate to trusting yourself more?


Yes. Every training session builds confidence.


So confidence is just another word for trusting yourself?


Yes, exactly.


Gediminas, this has been such an inspiring conversation. Thank you so much for coming all the way here for this interview.


It was my pleasure.


Is there anything else you’d like to add for the audience?


I mean, if you don’t have any more questions, I could talk for hours!


Exactly! But if people want to hear more, they need to book you as a keynote speaker.


Oh yes, definitely! I’d love to share more. There’s still so much we haven’t covered—breathing techniques, nutrition, training methods.


Then we’ll all book you for that! Thank you so much for coming.


Thanks for having me.


And to everyone watching at home, thank you for tuning in. See you next week!

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